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Author Topic: 1860 Army  (Read 5739 times)

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the_law_man01

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1860 Army
« on: October 24, 2013, 09:44:43 PM »

Got a Navy Arms Co 1860 Army stamped as a Pietta I believe. Is never fired and from the 80s. This baby was ROUGH (from factory) when I got it. I smoothed up the internals (not done yet more polishing to do) and removed a lot of burrs from the edges of the parts. This noticeably freed up the action and everything still fits very well. It is a brass frame and my 1st BP is a 1858 steel frame Remmy so I'm gonna have to get used to lighter loads than 30gr of T7 3F.

Any suggestions for loads with T7? I'm not hardcore 100% original on my shooting so I like T7 at this point. Easier to clean and should keep my guns in better shape (not as corrosive as true BP). I've got some Goex fff in storage and will continue to by a can from time to time to put in storage for just in case purposes (paranoid...I know). From what I understand true BP lasts forever as long as it is sealed up and dry, dry, dry.

Anywho, below should be a few pics.





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Jaxenro

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 06:13:15 AM »

Looks like a navy arms "Reb" sort of a 44 caliber Griswold & Gunnison a gun which never existed

I would keep loads on the lite side with the brass frame maybe 20 grains
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the_law_man01

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 08:26:24 AM »

Yeah. I got it at a fair price from a friend and don't plan on selling it so it was an interesting add to my 'new' collection.

As I said, I'm not a 'purist' in this area so I'm not concerned with it never having been an actual production revolver. It's something good for me to learn on in the area of care, tuning, shooting accurately, small game hunting, etc.

TLM
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rodwha

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2013, 09:08:49 AM »

20 grns seems the upper edge when using standard powders. It may be slightly much for a brass frame. I'd start at maybe 15 and work up ever so slightly. Watch the recoil shield for the imprint of the back of the cylinder. Once you begin to see an indention you know you've crossed the line.

I think Triple 7 is fine for the long run (how long?). It's the once opened it seems to degrade. It's believed to be due to humidity. There are several guys who claim to not notice any reduction in strength after some time, but I don't know if you'd realize a 10% reduction without a chronograph.

One thing that was suggested is to drop a desiccant pack into the jar. I've done so with mine. It can't hurt...

But I've also begun using 3F Olde Eynsford black powder by Goex. It's of a similar power as Swiss and Triple 7. And it's much cheaper than T7 or Swiss. At Graf's it's only $1 more per pound than standard Goex. I won't use anything but those 3 mentioned.
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the_law_man01

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2013, 01:12:38 PM »

15 grains seemed pretty light but with T7 it doesn't take much to bump it up into the stiff range. I'll probably do some testing next time I'm out to find the max. I'm guessing it will be between 18-20 grains. That's ok though. I don't plan to do any more than shoot rabbits, squirrels, targets, and the like with it.

I don't want to do any unneccessary damage to the frame so I'll keep it light...ish. I'm not one to really push the envelope TOO much. I read of some guys putting 35-40 grains of T7 behind a ball in their replica Remmies and going at it. I don't think I'll be going quite that high with anything. My max load at this point in my Remmy is 30 grains T7, and it handles it great. No hammer blow back, stressed cylinder pin, etc. Also, I don't compress the load which I've been told is a no-no with T7.

Anywho, does anybody know if I can buy a spare .36 barrel and cylinder for this bad boy and have 2 calibers with 1 gun? That would be SWEET!!!

TLM
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rodwha

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2013, 08:02:59 PM »

I've often seen it stated that T7 doesn't like or shouldn't be compressed much. This is what their site states:

Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges.

Percussion Firearms: Select the proper charge from the loads listed in this brochure. Set powder measure as indicated. While holding the firearm vertically, slowly pour the measured charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex into the barrel. Seat the projectile firmly against the powder

I've emailed Hodgdon's several times asking them to clarify the compression issue as well as the need to reduce the load by 15% for safety sake. It reads that it's necessary to reduce to replicate a BP load, not for safety. But if the max charges given are with standard BP maybe reducing max loads is wise. But I've read it's believed by most that these cap n ball (steel frame) pistols can more than handle a full load of T7. Never heard the load needs to be reduced when using Swiss, which gives similar velocity as T7, though I'm not sure how pressures may differ.
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the_law_man01

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 12:32:10 AM »

Very good bit of contradicting information there!  ::)

Anywho, I Google searched 'hodgdon triple 7 fffg'.

I found an article published in Handguns Magazine a couple years back...or last year. The guy did a bit of testing with T7 in BP revolvers. He said that Hodgdon rated 25 grains of T7, in a '58 Pietta 44, at 760ish FPS. The guy did some testing with the same load and over 2 separate chronos for verification. His result was that across the board on Hodgdon's suggested loads they reported average speeds approximately 150-200 fps slower than actual real world results...interesting. I believe he said his results were around 940ish FPS on the Pietta Remmy with 25 grains. So, in theory, my 30 grains should be pushing 1000ish FPS!

Here's the article for the exact numbers. It's an interesting read and convinced me to stick with loose powders rather than pellets in ALL of my BP guns not just my pistols.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/accessories_hodgdon_triple_7_fffg/
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rodwha

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 08:14:57 AM »

I've noticed that Hodgdon's numbers don't come close to anyone's chronograph results. It makes one wonder about the 15% more powerful statement. Is 85 grns of T7 similar to 100 grns of Goex? Is there a difference in percentage with rifles vs pistols as the barrel lengths are so different? Hmmm.....

I've even adjusted people's results a bit for error and it's still higher than what Hodgdon states.
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brazosdave

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2013, 12:10:49 PM »

That indeed is a Griswold replica in .44 cal.  I would use a loading of around 22-25 grains of goex or bp, a little less for Trip 7.  I'd start on the low side and find out where it's shooting like i want it.  .44 brasser Piettas are a good deal of fun, i have a couple of em in the octagon navy barrel configuration.  I think you will like it!
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GunSlingerNM

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 02:10:46 PM »

I have found that my most accurate loads at 20 meters shooting 44 cal in both Colt and Remington replicas are 18 to 22 gr in any of the subs.  I have shot much stouter loads while plinking in both brass and steel framed but find this works for me.  It is very dry in New Mexico so subs do not degrade due to humidity so an open jar is just as good a couple of years after opening.
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the_law_man01

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 07:36:19 PM »

I had similar accuracy on my New Army. However, at 25 yards, it holds to about 2"-3" with 30gr of T7. That is a hunting load. I don't plink with that much.

I only fired one cylinder with this 1860. Someone had dry fired it quite a bit. The nipples were smashed and widened out a bit. I did a little modification work to the nipples so that #11 caps would fit.

I would like to complete an upgrade on the nipples for the Colt and the Remmy. Any suggestions?

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rodwha

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2013, 12:45:23 PM »

I've often read to place the nipple in the chuck of a drill carefully and sand the nipple down with emory cloth. Do it very slowly and check often.
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Jaxenro

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2013, 02:16:14 PM »

I use treso's they work great
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rodwha

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 05:48:44 PM »

Not an Italian, but I have Track of The Wolf nipples on my ROA. They are slightly cheaper, but designed like a Treso's interior, but like a Ruger's hex head exterior. I went to great lengths to find a 3/16" Craftsman nut driver!
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"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of truth and of life You hold." - Third Day

the_law_man01

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Re: 1860 Army
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 07:23:15 PM »

So, is there a link someone can provide for info about the Treso and Track of the Wolf nips so I can read up on why they are so awesome and effective?
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