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Author Topic: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it  (Read 11326 times)

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BGRooster1

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 07:42:25 PM »

Rodwha, Check this http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=db4de6d2-f7f1-4cc9-be13-60a8c627d736
Would be nice if it had a wider flatpoint and a bit more semi-wadcutter profiled.

 and this http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=09d6fdda-c105-4c87-b269-68ebfdaba982 I 'm going to contact Dick Dastardly to find out the size of the rebate and find out wide the flat of the nose is also.

 If you click on the picture of the .36 you will get a pic with dimensions but it doesn't work with the  other.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 07:46:00 PM by BGRooster1 »
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 08:00:14 PM »

I've been back and forth on the weight of his bullet. On one hand it seems light enough that one can get it moving fast enough to expand some, which I like. But on the other hand I keep thinking that a heavier bullet, if I only have one mold, might be better for penetration, and I prefer two holes as wide as I can get them.

I keep thinking maybe getting a 4 cavity Accurate mold with 2 sizes is ideal.

The nose isn't that wide, but the lube groove is so large, and I prefer I not to be so spacious as I don't see the need for that much lube in a short barrel. Plus it just makes the bulletin get, which takes up the powder capacity.

I do like that the base has two sizes so that it will easily slide into a ROA or repro chamber.

I tried clicking on the links, but it brings an error instead. I'm guessing its due to me using my phone.
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the_law_man01

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2013, 10:22:22 PM »


I wanted a light weight (150-160 grn) FN that was no longer than a RB and it came out to be 180 grns. I'm also having him work on  a heavier bullet for hunting, as well as a light weight FN for the .36 cal (90-100 grns), though it may turn out a bit heavier as well.

The idea behind the light weight FN being that it wouldn't take up any more powder capacity than a RB, but having more bearing surface ought to increase pressure/velocity, and hopefully expand more readily.

I get that with the repros you don't want to lose any powder capacity, but won't the shorter length of the round make it succeptible to tumbling especially with a slower twist rate?

Maybe not. Maybe it will let you load a higher powder charge to increase the out the muzzle twist of the bullet to stablize it?

Just curious. I'm looking for a hunting bullet.

In another forum, several hunters have taken big game with round ball and 25gr Triple 7. One specifically was a deer at 30 yrd quartering away. Ball entered behind the front leg, traveled through heart/lungs, through opposite shoulder blade, and lodged under the skin on the other side. Any closer and would have been complete pass through. Through the rib cage on both sides would have most likely resulted in complete pass through as well.

If I can obtain higher velocity and/or more energy using a bullet/conical, might be even better.
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long hunter

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 09:20:30 AM »

These guns are a bit funny. The chamber builds more pressure with heavy bullets. You may find that velocity is adequate, even with less powder.
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2013, 09:21:53 AM »

Tom at Accurate Molds just sent me an email stating he finished the 160 grn FN bullet design. It's only 0.41" OAL!

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-160B-D.png
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the_law_man01

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2013, 11:48:06 AM »

Tom at Accurate Molds just sent me an email stating he finished the 160 grn FN bullet design. It's only 0.41" OAL!

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-160B-D.png

The accuratemolds website is impressive. However, all of his weights are "as cast in wheel weight alloy". I've heard that the wheel weight alloy is too hard to allow good expansion and could also result in poor accuracy out of the C&B revolvers.

Thoughts/experience?

Thanks,
TLM
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 11:52:18 AM »

It shouldn't be used in a cap n ball reproduction pistol as it would stress the loading lever assembly. A Ruger may be able to handle it, but I'm not certain.

I mentioned to him that I'd need the dimensions when cast with pure lead. His response seemed to suggest that when you fill out the info on creating a mold it will be with the desired lead/alloy you note. So the only thing that should change would be the weight. Not a biggy...
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2013, 11:56:25 AM »

Kaido uses something that gives his cast bullets a BHN of 7-11, which is harder than pure. And that may be desirable if you do not want expansion, but penetration. These were designed for hog hunting specifically.

It's generally believed that a .45 cal hole is plenty, but I think I'd prefer something in the middle. I'm not sure how well a 255 grn pure lead FN would deform if no bone is struck. I also like an exit hole.
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2013, 12:00:34 PM »

law man: I'd like to know the forum you mentioned where someone killed a deer with a RB. There's not many who claim these pistol are worthy of hunting with. It seems there are more who state that they are not as they are no more "powerful" than a 38. I was told this many times on traditional forums. But I found evidence to the contrary, and I enjoy reading about those who have found they are very useful for hunting with.
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long hunter

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 02:55:48 PM »

On the subject of bullet alloys, I "cook" the alloy for a good while. I keep skimming the gold-tinted "dross" off the top, until it stops forming. You'll begin to get a thin film on top. you can stop skimming now. The resulting alloy will still be harder than pure lead, but It will be soft enough not to stress the gun too much. I cast 200 grain SWCs. They drop from the mold at 0.455". I size them down to 0.451".  It makes them much easier to load. The lube helps that too.

On the subject of expansion, even a pure lead bullet from one of these revolvers won't expand much. Expansion doesn't kill anyway.  I don't care if you hunt with a 700 nitro express. If you don't hit vitals, that animal won't stay down.  Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

Everyone says that these revolvers are no more powerful than a .38 special. I come from a long line of police officers. They can tell you that it's not wise to underestimate a .38.
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2013, 07:38:00 PM »

I must begin by stating that I have no experience hunting with BP guns/pure lead projectiles.

It's certainly not the expansion that kills, but it certainly can make it happen quicker. Not that I necessarily lean on that, but as I see it my pistol will most likely be used as a backup weapon on the chance that a hog has been wounded. There are many who hunt hogs with hard cast bullets from large caliber handguns, but if I could get plenty of penetration as well as expansion I'd be that much happier.

My concern is when you don't have the time or static posture to make that nice shot. I'd prefer the bigger hole that has just enough oomph to push out of the other side. That to me would be the ideal projectile. I don't know what all is necessary to (worst case) break through a lot of bone and still travel the distance necessary. There are all sorts of scenarios, but the one I am concerned with is the frontal I owe you one.

I've asked those who do hunt with pure lead projectiles about expansion and it seems to begin at ~800 fps. I'm not sure how/if projectile design or weight has anything to do with that. But I know of someone who prefers a RB when hunting with his Walker over a heavy bullet as the wound is that much more horrific.
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long hunter

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2013, 07:49:46 PM »

Once again, if you don't hit vitals, it doesn't matter if your bullet doubles in size and penetrates 40" of gelatin. It ain't goin down quick.

I wouldn't hunt hogs with a pure lead bullet. Those suckers are like small, breathing tanks. The alloy I mentioned would be adeqiate. If you want expansion, get a hollowpoint mold.

Round balls do seem to have more wallop for their weight. They are balistically poor, but that makes them expend their energy more rapidly in the animal. For shots inside 15 yards, It probably works well.
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rodwha

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2013, 08:53:36 PM »

If a RB can work so well why wouldn't a light weight FN bullet work as well if not better?

I wouldn't hunt hogs or anything else that may decide to turn and chew on me with a light weight bullet. I doubt I was clear enough of that. I'd choose a heavier bullet that I'm certain could penetrate well, but I would prefer a bullet that expanded and penetrated even nearly through vs one that made a caliber sized hole and exited, especially if I couldn't take the time to aim for a specific targeted area.

I certainly agree that shot placement is very important. I'd always chose a small caliber bullet through the brain over a 12 ga slug through the hams. But there are times when things happen too fast for accurate bullet placement.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 09:14:51 PM by rodwha »
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the_law_man01

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2013, 10:04:09 PM »

law man: I'd like to know the forum you mentioned where someone killed a deer with a RB. There's not many who claim these pistol are worthy of hunting with. It seems there are more who state that they are not as they are no more "powerful" than a 38. I was told this many times on traditional forums. But I found evidence to the contrary, and I enjoy reading about those who have found they are very useful for hunting with.

http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php/topic,286.30.html

This link should take you to the thread/page the story is on...maybe half way down.

I don't see how it isn't possible. I know it's a totally different platform. However, last year my brother shot and killed a nice buck at about 90 yards with a .50 Hawken style rifle using cap/ball and 60gr of FFFg black powder.  :o He doesn't shoot substitues or anything. He also uses ball with lubed cloth patch for wadding so quite a bit of gas pressure escapes around the ball on the way down the tube. The deer only went about 20 yards. But, as said above, it's all about shot placement. He sent it right through the deer's heart. He normally loads 90gr (even though he COULD use quite a bit more in that rifle) and has shot several deer at 75 yards and further. He doesn't lose them. If they aren't lying within 30 yards of where he shot them, he missed, and that's only happened a couple times in the last several years. I guess I need to get him a graduated/adjustable powder measure so this doesn't happen again.  :P
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long hunter

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Re: New to percussion revolvers thinking about hunting with it
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2013, 03:32:40 AM »

Roundballs have killed a lot of animals (and other things).  They're just terrible in the long range department.
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